#5 "Just the facts, MAM"

Speaker 0 00:00 Welcome to the workflow show episode one Oh five. I'm Meryl Davis. And along with Nick gold today, we're going to talk about ma'ams media asset management. We like to say just the facts. Ma'am what exactly is media asset management. It's related to two other phrases that that seemed to have taken root. When, when talking about this sphere of technologies, it's actually a sphere that hovers above your bed in the middle of the night and beams, strange thoughts into your head. It looks like a floating jellyfish. So dam, dam, digital asset management. So we've got ma'am media, asset management, dam, digital asset management, and now a new one. And this one I think was largely what's the word promulgated? Is that the right word while you said the word correctly? So if it is, you said it right. I don't even know if that's a real word. Speaker 0 00:59 I think it was really largely promulgated by avid Pam or production asset management. So the common theme here is asset management though, right? Yes. Asset. And we're not talking like what Goldman Sachs does with your assets and like trading and options and not that kind of asset management here, although they do call that asset management. We're talking about the management of your media and data files, right? Zeros and ones, folks. Lots of them are chock full of zeros and ones. So, so when we talk about asset management here, this is a good segue in kind of the first section we wanted to talk about the kind of two personalities of these systems and what the big picture is. Sure. Uh, and, and personalities, would we categorize sort of the Jekyll and Hyde of a man versus damn. Yeah. I was thinking more like, um, Harvey, what's his name to face on Batman. Speaker 0 02:00 Oh, uh, dent. Yeah. Harvey dent. Yeah. Which shares the same last name as our president of our company. But I feel like that's a Mark. Mark dent. Yes. I tell him he should have like an auto body repair shop. So here are the two main things that, that these systems do. What will break down a little more, the difference between ma'am damn and Pam, but you're going to keep saying that. Yes, I am. So, so the first is the database driven approach to organizing your files, you know, for really let's call it logging and search functionality, but using a database right. Versus just, well, we'll get into the, the versus of, of the traditional way of doing it. But it's this searching capability. Being able to find things very granularly and just have very quick access to the files that you work with in media production. Right. You know, I think that will be good time to sort of Speaker 1 03:00 Pull back for a second. What, why would I need that? Why would I, I need that level of granularity in my work. Speaker 0 03:09 Well, so, so let's talk about how a lot of people organize files today. Right? We have file systems, file systems consist of drives, little hard drive icon on your desktop or otherwise known as volumes within those vault. Those volumes can have a name, right? So there's your first level of organization within those drives are volumes. You have a hierarchy that you may be have organized, maybe big, big fat M on that. Maybe because a lot of people don't do this very well, but maybe you've organized the, the system of folders and sub folders into a meaningful hierarchy on that volume. And those folders and sub folders kind of are logically organized and have names associated with them. So say you're shooting a reality Speaker 1 04:03 Show and you've got your B roll. You've got maybe day one production, maybe day, two production, maybe specific talking head interviews. And then, uh, maybe some, you have a section also for, um, you know, a video from other sources like, uh, you know, stock footage. Speaker 0 04:18 Absolutely. You may have sub folders and directories for four different, entirely different projects you're working on. You may have different volumes for different projects. You're working on. You may have, as you said, Meryl, different types of footage, different people you're interviewing in their own sub folders. Here's a shot from the camera sources, you name it, right. But you're using this series of folders and sub folders within them as kind of a level of organization. And again, ideally you're naming these folder schemes, something meaningful that helps you search right within these folders. We have the files themselves, right? And those, again, not a lot of people do this terribly well, but you may have come up with a system for naming files that gives you some level of detail on what's in them. You may come up with a file naming scheme or convention where you are basically baking things into the file name, right. Speaker 0 05:15 You know, B roll, underscore date, underscore camera source, underscore, uh, you know, whatever. Well, in a nice one, a nice one too, is like, if you, if you're a customer that's constantly working on tons of projects, right? Maybe you come up with a unique project ID number for every unique project you're working on. And maybe you've baked that project ID number into file names, or even folder names with, you know, within this directory structure. And you've got some level of organization, but this is basically all it consists of volumes and their names, folders, and sub folders and their names and the files and their names. And that's basically all she wrote. Right. And that's all contingent upon you. Yeah. Actually kind of doing it, but, but it's, I like to call it a very kind of two dimensional approach to organization. Right. You've you've got files and you've got folders and directories basically go into a doctor's office and putting everything in, in like, you know, the medical file in, in the wall. Speaker 0 06:17 Oh. And we've all seen how much of a mess that is. That's true. It takes them like 10 minutes to like find the record of my various missing tooth. It's funny. I was thinking of teeth. You were thinking teeth. I don't know me too. I've had a lot of, well, not a lot of missing problems. We aren't Hamden. There's definitely some missing teeth prevalent in the neighborhood that Chesapeake is based out of. I found a lot of them they're usually in the street, so. Okay. So that's pretty much the, the so, but let's, let's contrast scenario of, of reality for most, most people. Right? So here's what a database driven approach does for you with a database. It's ironic the location of your files becomes a lot less relevant because you can come up with a plethora of categorizational plethora. You are all over it today, man. Speaker 0 07:12 I'm college educated and proud of it. There you go. But so I'm also from the Northeast Massachusetts say no more. So let's say I'm a nose is kind of rising in the air a little bit. Is that a new England thing? So the database driven approach basically lets you define how many dimensions you want to categorize your data. Right? It's all about coming up with metadata and keywords. And you know, as we were talking about, right, you may have some folders that you may be are using to organize things. Um, but with, with metadata you can have like various popup menu. So, you know, we have, we have customers who are kind of doing campaign ads and things like that. You know, they have a metadata field for, you know, which, you know, is this a senatorial race, a congressional race, a presidential race, okay then which state is it in? Speaker 0 08:08 What's the name of the, the candidate, you know, is this, is this an interview? Is it, this is it that? And they can have this like multi-dimensional set of fields and terms that they can use to kind of categorize all the different types of media that they're working with. And then, because it's a database, they can very easily execute a search for things that meet certain criteria and not others. They're not limited to searching in terms of something that's in a particular folder at a particular time, they can now kind of have this again, multidimensional approach of searching where, okay, I want to create a smart folder and it's always going to show me everything from 2008 with this client and you know, this type of footage that was shot during the day. When you say smart folder, we're talking like, you know, the same kind of thing. Speaker 0 08:58 That's an iTunes that, uh, yeah, it's the folder. That's always showing you all of the Bob Dylan recordings from 1969. And every time you add a Bob Dylan recording that has Bob Dylan somewhere and 1969 in its metadata somewhere, you know that the next time you click on that smart folder, that new thing you added that happened to meet that criteria will just be there. No one had to drag it into that folder. The folder, isn't a real folder sitting on a drive in a particular location. It's this constantly updating dynamic, basically perpetual search result. If you will, that's always going to show you what meets the definition of that search, you know, at any given moment, this has limitless capability. I mean, as you're saying this, I'm thinking about, um, sort of the longterm documentarian, they're doing a two year documentary. They've got video sources from all over the world and they have upwards of 80 talking head interviews and they finally get into post after two years of very long production. Speaker 0 10:04 And just imagine the level of organization that would have to be manually done for them to get the, the, um, uh, just the, all the qualities that they need in, in all these various, uh, eclipse. But it, wouldn't, it be great to be able to, for example, if you're shooting a documentary all around the world, sort by location of the shoot and then more Grammarly the day the shooting, I need Australia, B cam from August the 17th of 2010. And the other thing is that these, these can be like, that's, that's an example of something pretty in a sense quantitative or very kind of, yes, no something very clearly meets that definition, but you may have a set of tags that you generate that are maybe more qualitative in nature, like the type of thing being featured or water, or is this even good? What's the quality of the shot? Speaker 0 10:57 Is it daytime? Nighttime is, you know, um, you know, is there a lot of energy in this piece? Is there background music? You know, there's so you, again, what, what you do when you come up where you evolve and move into one of these database asset management oriented approaches to dealing with your media is you kind of come up with a, what we like to call a taxonomy or a series of kind of words and definitions that make sense for you, your specific projects, your organization. So like you're in a little personal Dewey decimal system. That's exactly what it is, man, except you don't actually have to go through like a car to catalog the card catalogs on your computer. Got it. Some of those cards were so dirty. Like you, you cause you know, Merrill and I are, are very old and we actually had a card for actually I'm 4,018. Speaker 0 11:51 Where you a time Lord. That's exactly correct in my own mind. Um, so you would open up a card catalog, but you know, those had metadata, you open up a book, right? You may notice this, unlike the first couple of pages, the inside pages of a book, you open it up, you know, it could be an book, it could be a real book that's made of a dead tree. You'll see that there's like a few pieces of metadata associated with the library of Congress and their tracking of that title. And you know, I, their system never made any sense to me. It's like you could get a book about like, you know, training your dog and it'll be like, I skipped out of my philosophical epistemology of, of animal stuffs. And you're like, this is what the library of Congress comes up with for meditative values. Speaker 0 12:35 I'm like, what the heck? Well, you know, I skipped out on my library class in college. I just, I, I didn't see the practical application worked in the library, all the library. I worked in the library, both in college and in high school and suck it out when I was like a real alternative, little like high schooler. This was in a private school in, in, in, in new England, your idea of alternative. So I'd be like sitting back behind the librarian's desk feet, kicked up, check this out. Cause I was so cool reading like 17 magazine. I'd be like, yeah, I imagined you were reading something like how by Alan Ginsburg. I was very well that, that it might've been like both. Right. Cause I was just hitting from all angles. I see, I see I was very vague on the road again and makeup tips, my identity. Speaker 0 13:21 It was still coming into focus. I see. Did you take it, you know, cause I'll admit, you know, like 17 and Cosmo, like I would always, I never eat any of those, but I would, I would go to the quiz. That's totally not appropriate for me anyway, because I'm not a woman and I would, I would take the quiz and I would try to answer it and see if I would pass the quiz. You know, can you please, your man and ostensibly, the answer is no, I cannot. It's too bad. Yeah. You know, I tried so, so metadata terms and being able to do a very kind of wide variety of searches to find maybe very granular bits of information. Oh gosh, I remember in 2007 we had that shot from that other project that we can maybe use in this new one against the skyscraper. Speaker 0 14:11 And it was 2007 because this happened and there was a sunset in it. And w w w w we were shooting in Austin at the time. Well, you know, in a media asset management system, that's not a matter of digging through, you know, thousands and thousands of files or opening up dozens of final cut projects. And I've had that job mind you. We had that job banks, you know, where I've walked into a post house and they said, Hey, Marilyn, why don't you sit down here? Here's 16 hard drives. We're looking for X, Y, and Z. If you don't mind opening up every single final cut project ever. Oh, and here's some avid projects too. And by the way, um, if you could jump on that media 100 and corner and maybe pull up some of those assets, it's very time consuming. It's the kind of task that, you know, marrow that when, when, when, when a producer, whoever asks you to do that, that's kind of, when you pull out a nail and you consider sticking it in your eyeball, uh, two nails, one for each eye and they make a popping sound though. Speaker 0 15:05 See, this came up in discussion earlier today. Do I balls make a popping? So we're talking about this Japanese movie and that Royal Royal, but in the book version, Meryl was telling me that there's very graphic scene of someone stamping on a skull and I about popping out and then popping the eyeball. But it made an audible sound. I think it might've just been a poor translation quite honestly, because it popped out of the skull, but I don't necessarily know that it made a sound and I have not tried this. And I don't see the density of an eyeball being great enough to actually make a literal sound like that. That's the sound that makes well, we'll find out next week, I guess. So in the putting out an I episode the workflows. So, so that's, that's what somebody would categorize as, yeah. Now we'll, we'll talk about the challenges of, of a dam or ma'am system a little bit later, you say damn or ma'am well, let's, let's put the timeout on that. Speaker 0 16:02 Are we going to start popping some oddballs? Um, we'll get into the damn man Pam thing in just a moment, but you know, it's important to stress in order to get these abilities to kind of search through your data in this very rich set of ways with these custom terms, someone's gotta be tagging a lot of your stuff logging essentially, but logging into a database, not just like an Excel spreadsheet or a word document and making little notes about time code, they're putting all of this in a database. So it's taking these logging tasks that you have and kind of coming up with a new tool, but it's not necessarily totally changing the process. So, you know, it really is logging. It's just a putting these log notes into a rich database versus this file that is only semi useful to you, right? And not only that, but garbage in garbage out, someone's got to actually do this. Speaker 0 17:00 You've got to train staff to know what to tag with, what terms you won't be able to look at that shot from 2007 in Austin, unless you know that the people who are logging in tagging your videos are aware of all the metadata parameters. So exactly sure that the people who are at the helm of your, your, your database here, um, know just how important and valuable these, uh, these tags are because they are, they are what define, um, your ability to find them later on. And without them then, you know, like I said, garbage in garbage out, well, I'll give you an example, right? Like a typo will totally keep you from finding something cause someone's spelled something wrong and you're searching for it correctly. And they fact fingered it when they were doing the logging. So this is why when we're deploying one of these asset management database systems, and we kind of have a set of customized metadata fields, we generally push people towards having a pop up menu, right? Speaker 0 17:56 Where you have a predefined list of values that you can choose for a metadata field, but not necessarily making it completely open-ended right. Cause here's an example, right? Here's a shot. Is that a kid? Is it a child? Is it a boy? Is it a girl? Is it a little rapscallion? What, what's the term you want your users to tag on it? Well, if they have a pop up menu and there's two values, adult and child, it's pretty easy to train your loggers to choose which of those terms is the appropriate one for any given shot. But if you just make it an open ended text field, they're going to put everything and anything, and then they're going to spell it wrong. Yeah. They're going to spell it wrong. What editors know how to spell? Oh, most of them though, they don't manage to do it. Speaker 0 18:40 Uh, they spell in pictures. They spell in pictures. The matter is, is anybody anywhere who's ever dealt with? The database knows that this is an issue. This is not localized just to, you know, a ma'am, this is a, you know, financial database. This is a contacts database. This is, you know, if anybody's ever done any data entry into a database, um, this is an issue. And, you know, having predefined fields reduces that now there might be an instance where you need at least one open-ended field, but, um, Nick's very right in, in, in so much that, uh, uh, predefined allows you to, um, whittle down, uh, the, the selected, um, parameters. I mean, you do that. And then you know that you have five key parameters that you can always search against versus potentially a hundred or more. Yeah. Let's, let's talk about that. Right. Speaker 0 19:31 So when putting together an asset management database and coming up with these metadata fields, you're gonna get some metadata for free, right? And this is more of the technical metadata relating to the files. You know, things like the name of the file becomes a piece of metadata. The location on a drive within a certain folder is a piece of metadata that gets tracked in the database. But so are some other interesting things like the codec, the frame rate, the frame size, the file creation date, which is obviously usually going to give you a pretty good clue about when it was either shot on the camera, if it was a tapeless format, and that was baked in from the beginning, or at least digitized the digitization date. If it was something that originated from one of those old fashioned things like a video tape, if you remember those that I think that came shortly after wax cylinders, this is why you're like 110 I'm 4,018. Speaker 0 20:23 You're the Highlander, not a timeline. There can only be one. So, um, Mark, my words that's, uh, that's true. That's very true. But so, so you want to come up with like a set of fields that someone's actually going to have to log themselves that, you know, I like saying it's like the Goldilocks principle. You don't want too few because then you can't search granularly enough. Right. You're going to do a search for like two things and like 400 results come up and it's not going to save you that much time. You also don't want to make it like 20 fields worth of data or 30 that like some basic longer has to fill out because there, they ain't going, gonna do it. Like it's too difficult. The training to get them up on exactly how to tag what is too much. You want the Goldilocks principle, not too much, not too little. Speaker 0 21:12 You want just right. And we've found that for most kind of loggers or, or producers who might be involved in some of this activity, you really want like five to 10 tops, qualitative metadata fields. Even if these metadata fields are like a check box that they checked, indicate that something's B roll or a checkbox, they check. And they have like a little grid of people's names and the project. So they can just quickly check off who might be in a given shot. You know, you don't want to make them work too hard. They're not going to do it. And again, remember a lot of the benefits of this search system comes down the line. It's when people have to find it, this data later on, maybe in the context of that pre postproduction activity, maybe three years later, or five years later, when you're going into your archives, looking for it. Speaker 0 22:00 So you don't want to give the people who are charged with tagging these things too much to tag. Cause they might not necessarily see the direct benefits themselves. And you run into this whole <inaudible> situation where people like, why should I have to target their stuff? I'm not even using it. I just you're giving me this deadline. And I got to get this in and I'm not seeing any benefit. It's, it's the organization's benefit. It's the benefit to the guy who, as we were talking about before, wants to just, you know, hit his head on the desk because he's being asked to find something a couple of years later that he now has to go through like a stack of FireWire drives. Cause that's what your garbage archive consists of. And, um, see the previous episode of the workflows. So where we talk about how bad of an archive strategy that is, um, but you know, it, you may be having to put an extra 30 seconds in on the front end to save you hours on the backend. Speaker 0 22:58 So it's a strategic investment of a little upfront time to save you huge amounts of time later on. And, and I would say this is entirely scalable. So in your example, we're talking about a post production organization. You know, they are making a show or they're, um, you know, they're generating, um, something hour long for television. Um, but at the same time, um, this is totally scalable. This could be for a guy who's a one man band who shoots like a mother and still needs this flexibility. Um, so it really doesn't stop based on the size of your project. It is infant in infinitely. It is infinitely expandable, I think. Yeah. And, and that's actually a good segue into differentiating a little bit, Dan versus man versus Pam. Cause that's, these systems are all similar in that. They're all talking about kind of a database driven approach that also automates and we'll get into the automation and a few, but automate certain aspects of your workflow as well. Speaker 0 23:58 And here's kind of what I've picked up on. Although again, these phrases are a little loosey goosey and some people might use one, some people might use the other and they're kind of referring to the same thing, but here's kind of what I've gleaned over the last few years, dam or digital asset management. It tends to be referring to relatively monumental systems that may kind of take this approach to organizing assets, automating workflow, but like at it, maybe an enterprise wide level getting into the distribution of assets, to content, distribution partners, tracking assets for kind of deployment and repurposing for websites or different kinds of printed, you know, models. I wonder what, uh, what kind of damn ice stock photo has, you know, and it's funny cause they have more than one, right? Cause they are a damn, but they probably have other things feeding into the dam that they use for internal purposes that the public never sees. Speaker 0 24:56 So damn kind of is referring at once to the overarching system. It may actually combine several different systems that are plugged together through common standards like XML or at the API level or, you know, various systems. But digital asset management is almost like the philosophy. And I think the term evolved from the publishing industry because they were some of the first to kind of have these media assets like for magazine publishing or advertising PR. And they needed to track like a product shot of a box of cereal sitting on a stool that might get used for a dozen different types of things. And they started building these databases to kind of track them and tag them and search for them. So damn tends to be monumental. It may actually consist of more than one system. And again, some folks I've noticed, tend to associate it more with graphic or photographic or logo or, or publishing oriented types of files and a little less of like audio and video ma'am is kind of the adaptation of that. Speaker 0 26:04 Um, the M being iMedia and, and the media in media I've found people tend to kind of be referring more to like multimedia, like audio and video things that maybe have a time element in that media file. It's not just something that is a still image. That's a flat file or multi multilevel, but it's one thing, you know, audio and video has this interesting fourth dimension of time and media asset management systems tend to be the ones I've found that are referring to systems that kind of know how to make use of media that unfolds over time. So Pam, again, kind of, I think originally talked about by avid when referring to the avid interplay Pam system, which is now a little different than the avid ma'am system, which was acquired from blue order, but Pam is production asset management. And again, I'd say it's, it's just a further, you know, drilling into the media asset management, but it's a particular media asset management tool that's really made for the production users themselves, the loggers, the editors, the producers, it's less monumental. Speaker 0 27:19 It's less about feeding into publishing and distribution systems. Um, it's often a little less oriented, although not necessarily, but perhaps less oriented at being kind of the front end to your massive archive database. It's more to solve the immediate moment to moment needs of the production and postproduction level users. So, so I ain't got set and again, there's a lot of inter interchange between some of these words and some people might call a Pam, a man, and a man, my Pam, the key part here is the a and the M asset management. Yeah. That is the thing that we're talking about today. So we talked about the database, maybe it's a good time to talk about this other personality, the, the, the evil twisted face of Harvey dental a to face. I'm not a geek by the way, um, the workflow automation component. So what, what exactly can be automated? Speaker 0 28:18 So say everything. So let's, let's set forth an example. Why don't we, why don't we go with this production company that's producing, you know, maybe it's a two or three reality shows PR first season. Uh, so they have a lot coming in and a lot going out, um, in that scenario where they have multiple, multiple camera sources for multiple productions, all concurrently coming in, being ingested on a regular basis. And then, uh, being edited just as quick Lee quickly, uh, what, that's an adverb folks. Yes. I'm just a verb. I, I'm not gonna do the whole thing, but, um, so let's, let's use that scenario as a basis for automation. Sure. So one of the, so when we talk about workflow automation, we mean like taking advantage of the fact that computers are really good at allowing you to kind of speed up the process. Speaker 0 29:16 That's involved with a set of tasks that you basically have to repeat over and over. So in the scenario you just gave, like, what's one thing that happens all the time. Well there's review and approval processes, right? You have editors working with producers or even producers working with loggers to kind of be mining this material and, and find good shots that they want to use when they're actually doing an edit or an editor has a rough cut that they want to redo a review with a producer. And it's basically this dynamic of someone is working tagging editing, and they need to get someone else's approval. Right. So what can be automated there? Well, usually, you know, there's going to be some emails flying around. There's going to be maybe like taking something that's was, was logged or edited in a camera native format. And someone might need to spit out a little web version and maybe even deposit it on like a server somewhere that the producer can log into on the ethernet network or even across the internet, or just pull up a webpage and take a look at it. Speaker 0 30:24 Maybe that producer needs to get some notes back to the user, uh, who did the logging or the edit, you know, they need to kind of correspond a bit, they need to tell each other that something is ready for them to review. And then the person who does the review needs to feed back to the person who gave them that thing. Yes, this is approved. No, it's not approved. You need to make these further changes. Right. That's a pretty typical review and approval process. Right? Sure. So how do we automate something like that? So imagine, imagine this all over the place. I mean, like there's so many moving parts, pretend you're watching Scooby-Doo and it's that like doula dilute where everything kind of blurs and pretend I'm watching Wayne's world, if that's okay. Well, yeah, they did that too. Yeah. So, okay. The alternate reality Speaker 1 31:13 Tia career, she was on the apprentice, celebrity apprentice last season, really, you know, she was doing these days getting kicked off of celebrity apprentice. Really. She didn't make it too far, but, uh, um, her personality did not do well in Donald's board room. I don't think, uh, you know, between her and I think he would love her. I mean, he's mr. Universe or whatever is, he says, I respect you when you're working, you know? And then he, he says, you're fired. You know, he fired her along with the, uh, respect, Lou Ferrigno, you know, the original hole, Lou, Lou, he got fired. Well, you fire the Hoke. I'd be like really scared of the consequences. Uh, he didn't do his job. That's why they fired him. Cause every single task, what he wanted to do was he says, well, you know, I can get up there and I can flex my muscles. So, you know, and like after a while, Lisa Lampanelli was like, you know, give it a break, Lou. Uh, anyway, if you didn't watch it, if you didn't watch the celebrity apprentice, you know, um, spoiler Arsenio hall one. Alright, it was great. It was great. He deserved it. He earned it. I imagine in this alternative world of Speaker 0 32:27 Lou Ferrigno and Tia Carrera living together happily ever after on their fantasy Island, a database, an application that you as a logger or editor using, well, let's, let's it from the perspective of this imaginary editor, you've got this other little program running, maybe it's cat DV, which is the media asset management production asset management program that we've been deploying lots of lately and generally are quite happy with. We'll talk more about it in a more specific product oriented, uh, episode where we're more clearly shilling for Chesapeake systems. Yes. But anyway, imagine that you have, um, this program, this database, and you've even within this application created a little rough cut. It lets you set in points. It lets you set up points. It lets just create some markers and you can even do like a little string out at it. Write a paper, edit if you will, but digitally digital edit, uh, but a rough cut and you create a little sequence. Speaker 0 33:31 And then that sequence becomes a new asset in the database. It doesn't get rid of all the other things. It was nondestructive editing, just like you're doing in a final cut project, but it's all within the context of this database that multiple people can look into. And you know now, Oh, I did this little rough cut as an editor. I need the producer to take a look at this. I'm going to check the magic proverbial checkbox ready for review. Right? So is that, is that going to show up in a smart folder somewhere so we could do so much Merrill so much. I'm curious for instance, we could have the action of checking that metadata checkbox ready for review trigger an email notification. Oh, we can put hooks into the mail server and just hooks into the mail server. We were doing that like back in the seventies. Speaker 0 34:28 So we could trigger an email that knows to go to the particular producer that's associated with this show because that show name has a certain set of users associated with it. It triggers an email notification to the producer saying this little rough cut sequence is ready for you. That sequence maybe gets deposited as an H two 64 quick time movie in a particular folder on a server that the producer has access to maybe that email. And so checking the checkbox did the little transcode and turned the XD KMHD footage into a little mini H two 64 web movie that the producer could easily get to from their, their, you know, wireless connection at Starbucks where they're enjoying, uh, uh, you know, chocolate mocha macchiato with caramel on the top. Cause I picture that that's the kind of thing producers drink at Starbucks, but, but, and usually bleach. Speaker 0 35:29 Jeez. So they get an email. It says that this particular asset associated with this project is ready for review. Here's a link to the little H two 64 version that was automatically generated and deposited on a server. It gives them a link to it in the email, they click on it, they click it and it, it goes into like a web browser front end for the media asset management system. They don't have to be running the full media asset management app. They just launch into Safari, get pointed to a particular URL. The asset comes up, they can view that little age, two 64 version that was generated. And they even get a couple of fields that they can fill out like some notes back to the editor and then either approved or not approved checkbox. And then they can make some notes, tell them it's approved, tell them it's not approved. You know, give them some feedback. Are you saying hit a submit button? And that then feeds back into the media asset management database with triggers, more automations informing the editor that that's ready for them. And it was not approved for the following reasons and Speaker 1 36:38 All of this marrow triggered by this simple checking of a checkbox. I have a question though. Oh, I bet you do. I do. I do have a question. How much will this cost me? No, no. Um, my question actually, is, are you saying that, uh, we can keep the producer out of the office with this process? That that is a major, major side effect. Okay. Advantage. Well, and also for all the field producers out there that, uh, that are, are generally, uh, out for a week with the crews, then all the tapes, um, if they're shooting digital tape or whatever they get, um, or even the cards or the hard drives or mail back to the main, um, the main area you're still out, you're still out in, in the force of Oregon, which I don't know why you're doing a show there, but it's awesome because you like the redwoods and the owls and, uh, you know, all that other stuff that comes through the rain, through the nature, the rain and, and, and, and the, uh, the local Oregonians or <inaudible> orangutans, uh, no, no, or Oregon. Speaker 1 37:48 We love you. Um, and your piercings, uh, attitudes and, and your, uh, your analog photography, um, Goonies was filmed in Oregon, right? But, so if you're in the, the force of, uh, of wherever you are, um, and all that stuff cut edits out in the field, cause there's a local Starbucks, um, you can just, uh, you can just log in there. Uh, and you don't ever have to go to home base. You know, it used to be the producers go to home base. I got to sit in an edit Bay, they got a, they got to drive the editor. They got to sit there and say, yes, no, maybe so. And now I got to get on a plane and go halfway across the country to do the next a little bit. So let's talk about a couple of other types, types Speaker 0 38:31 Of workflow automations. Another one is delivery, right? I have finished an edit. That final piece is in the database, right? I now need to, let's say we are, we are sending it to some kind of distribution partner and they need basically a digital file living on a server somewhere that you've sent to them in a very particular format. How about this with an accompanying XML metadata file that feeds some types of specific information about the actual media file into their own content management system. Maybe you're feeding it into Drupal for a web based system or one of countless other content management systems that may be a broadcast partner, like a Comcast or whoever might have, right. Well, again, to the proverbial checking of the magic checkbox, we could trigger a workflow automation that turns the camera native edit native formatted final cut of a project into one or dozens of different flavors of transcoded video for iPhone, for iPad, for flash, for, for this, for that web M if you ever decide to buy into Google's doomed to fail web video format, um, spit them into various, you know, password protected FTP directories across the interwebs and extract from your own database, the value of certain metadata fields that you have filled in yourself and spits that stuff out as a specially formatted XML document that then gets sent to these FTP directories as well, that relate back to the files that you've delivered to them in these various formats. Speaker 0 40:22 And again, maybe you've filled out some of the key fields like program name, episode number, you know, show, name, brief description, some of the types of things that this distribution company may want in that metadata document, so that it kind of automatically gets fed into their system. Again, we can do all of this in a totally automated fashion through this checking of the check box, if you will, or the changing of a metadata field from, you know, still in, you know, edit to ready for delivery status. There's a lot of ways we can do it. And we can also trigger these workflow automations through watch folder actions. You drop a file into a particular folder that has these various automations associated with them, trans coding delivery, moving files around triggering email notifications. What have you, and maybe by dropping a file into a watch folder somewhere we trigger that, you know, another interesting thing that we do is we do these watch folder workflow automations on ingest. Speaker 0 41:22 So let's say you've got a bunch of P two footage that's coming in off the field and you got to stack at P two cards and you're dragging it onto the sand. Well, maybe you drag things from particular cameras or particular shooters or particular locations into particular folders on the sand. Those folders could have specific watch folder automations that pre tag, those media clips with at least a certain set of fields from the get go based on the folder that they were dragged into. So, you know, this, this, this came from this guy's camera. We know he was in Oregon shooting the redwoods in the owls and the rain, um, you know, in, you know, 2008 or whatever. I mean, you have all of these things that you kind of pre associate that, you know, are common to the material coming off of this P two card. Speaker 0 42:11 Well maybe if you just drag it into this particular folder, it gets cataloged into the media asset management system, pre tags, that stuff because of the particular folder that you dragged it into with a set of fields that's appropriate for stuff that's being dragged into that folder. Maybe even send some email notifications around to editors or, or loggers or producers, Hey, this is ready for you to start logging in more detail. So this sounds like a pretty customizable set of features here overwhelmingly customizable in, in many circumstances. And this is the kind of thing that, uh, you know, uh, once we have a conversation with an individual organization, they let us know exactly how they would like their workflow to be how they currently do it. And then we, we, uh, you know, put it all on a magic hat and, and, uh, make this work. Speaker 0 42:58 I may give one more example of one of these workflow automations. And then let's maybe talk a little bit about potential challenges of these systems. Cause you know, there, there is a lot of variables here, a lot of thinking folks. Um, so another one is we were talking last week part of the episode about archive, right? And that a good physical format for archives is data tape. But the thing is, data tapes are not like a hard drive that you plug in. You can browse through the folders and just see what's there. They kind of tend to be a quote unquote, offline format, right? Well, let's say you've got all your content in one of these media asset management systems, and you want to send something to archive tape, cause you don't really need it taking up room on your storage area network anymore. Maybe in your media asset management program, you got a whole little metadata section about the kind of archive aspects of a given media file. Speaker 0 43:57 And you go into that archive section of your metadata and you have a popup menu that, that basically determines what the archival state of that asset is. And you are ready to send it off to data tape. So you choose send to archive and that triggers boom, number one, the generation of a very, very small, lightweight proxy version of the movie. Yeah. Maybe it's not full Rez might not even be full frame rate, although it might as well be maybe it's only like 500 K or one megabit. It could be one, 100th the size of the original media file. And you're going to hold on to that. That will stay on your storage system. It will generate that proxy version. You're still going to have all of the metadata in your database, so you can still search for that thing. You can still watch the proxy, but this little changing of the metadata status for archive then actually sends the file into the archive system. Speaker 0 44:55 The full Rez gets a moved tape. Once the system has confirmed that, that moved to data tape was successful. Maybe it purchased the full Rez version from the location on the sand that it once resided at, but you've got the proxy that was generated as part of this process. You've got all of your metadata still in the database. It still exists as a record in the database. So if you then later on are doing a search and he finds something and you're like, Ooh, I need that. You go into your media asset management systems, little archive section of the metadata. And you say, Oh, look, there's a note here that this is now on a date. This is in archive, but I can still view the proxy. Ooh, I like that. Well, part of that workflow automation we did was to have the archive system feed back into the ma'am the barcode number of the tape that the full Rez is now living on. Speaker 0 45:48 So that's right there in the ma'am to say, Oh, tape number one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. I can go to the shelf, find that tape, pop it in. Once it's in the tape library or the single tape drive like a cache. And we're talking to LTO tape here for, for, for a LTO five, if you're, if you're you're on top of things, you pop it in. And now you've got a little automation that can be kicked off from, within your ma'am to restore from archive. And then you pull that full Rez back into the very original location it was on, on the sand in the first place. And because it's in the original location, any project file you had that was referencing it originally, you won't won't have it be offline anymore. Cause the full Rez is back right where it was right where the project file points to. Speaker 0 46:37 So that, that media asset management system, as a front end to your archive system, in terms of both automating the process of getting something to and from archive and automating the process of generating a proxy version of the asset that you can still look at and kind of meaningfully review, even though the full Rez that takes up, most of the space is sitting on a tape on a shelf somewhere. That's another type of very common and useful workflow automation be a, you know, cause a lot of times when people want to, um, you know, do an archive of, of, of uh, their video assets, they still want to have access to them fairly ready. Uh, you know, they don't, uh, let me say that again. They don't want to hunt through stacks of data. They want to be able to recall this fairly quickly. Fair. Speaker 0 47:28 I can't talk to them readily was the readily was the word, but it just wasn't coming out. They want to believe it doesn't sound like a readily. It sounds, it sounds like a website, you know? Uh, no, they want to be able to recall the tape, you know, without having to go dig and without having to, to reinvent the wheel just to get some old assets back. I mean, it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's very convenient to be able to certainly reference the existing proxy and you know, because sometimes you gotta go pull something from archive anyway, and then you realize it's not the thing that you want. So this eliminates that entirely. Now you've got that proxy to review to confirm, Oh yes, this is, this is what we want. And I mean, there's so much more of these databases do like, you know, a database, a media asset management database. Speaker 0 48:15 Again, I mentioned it kind of briefly before, but you can do your sub clipping and the naming of sub clips, the tagging of sub clips, the generation of markers, all within the asset management program, like a cat DV or another, and then spit those sub clips and markers right into a project file. So you can set XML based. It tends to be XML behind the scenes, even if you're not explicitly spitting out an XML file, like, you know, cat DV and final cut seven, have this very direct interplay where you can drag clips, sub clips and markers, sub clips and markers that maybe you generated from within cat DV in the first place, right into a final cut project file. But you don't actually even have to drag between application windows, the final cut seven project file that's up and running on your computer. At that moment, actually cat DV sees that it's running and you can drag right into there. Speaker 0 49:10 And then you drag those things in. And then you flip back over to final cut and boom, it's created a new kind of sub bin with the date on it that has those things that you just dragged in from cat DV. So it's, it's, it's very slick and, and, and directly tied together, obviously that functionality with a premier pro as well, premier pro is evolving like with, again, this is very specific to the individual asset management programs, but like with cat DV, you can spit out an actual explicit final cut seven XML file. And because the Adobe guys were really smart and decided they wanted premiere to be able to understand the final cut XML, you could then import that final cut XML file into premiere pro and it would work. Okay. However, we found that the latest version of the final cut XMLs that we're getting spit out a cat DV didn't work quite so perfectly with premiere pro and that is getting like updated in the next version. The next major version of cat DV, which is 10, which is coming in a few months. So again, there's, these things are so complex and there's so many potential workflows that like, you know, talking to some experts like the guys at Chesapeake systems, who were they, the guys that were Schilling for Merrill. They're good looking out here, but we were not technically Schilling. If we're very open about the fact that we work for Chesapeake systems and yes, we'd love for you to buy more things from us. Speaker 1 50:32 But if not, that's okay too, because we're awesome. As long as you are Speaker 0 50:36 Friends and give this podcast like a five star review on iTunes and say, you know, Speaker 1 50:41 That's chilling right now, right now, what you're doing is shilling. You, you totally rolled over there and started chilling. Speaker 0 50:46 I'm just a shill, I guess. So just the shoe. And Speaker 1 50:52 So, okay. So let's, let's redirect here for a second. So this is, there's a lot of automation that can happen here. A lot of searching, we've talked about all this automation, it needs to, it needs really to, uh, rely heavily on, um, what your parameters are. So we know that it's very important, garbage in garbage out because none of this automation process is going to matter if the, if the, the foundation of the way that your metadata tagging. Um, yes, no. Speaker 0 51:23 And yeah, the quality of the metadata tagging and, but not just the act of doing the tags, the act of as an organization, having thought through what tags should exist in the first place, what are the various fields of metadata or do we need different fields for different types of media or different projects that we're working on? Are some fields very important for one show we're working on, but we could care less about, you know, a field, something specific for another type of show we're working on. Maybe we do 30 minute or 32nd commercials and we do 22 minute television as well. And there may be some types of metadata that you want logger to tag for stuff that's intended for one that is really not even relevant to the other. You know, so thinking through the metadata and then the not only the fields, but what values should you allow someone to choose from when populating a field again, because we want to kind of force them into a set of choices. Versus open-ended thinking that through as an organization is really important. And the nice thing is here's a homework assignment. Folks. You can do a lot of this thinking very meaningfully before even deploying the system. In fact, kind of writing a lot of this stuff down in like a, an Excel spreadsheet, Speaker 1 52:41 Kind of been doing it already. If you're an editor worth his salt, you've been building the basic blocks of, of what your parameters need to be. Yes. Speaker 0 52:51 Although I will say this, like I was at one of our clients, um, a day or two ago. And, um, you know, we were asking about their logging process. In fact, we were at a couple of different clients and they basically said the same thing that logging takes up a huge amount of time. And it's extraordinarily important. These guys do reality TV. So their shooting ratios can be like 50 to several hundred to one 50 hours to several hundred hours of raw material that they shoot and put on their sand to every hour that gets on TV and logging is a hugely important process. It takes up ridiculous amounts of time. They said up to twice as much time as the actual number of hours of the footage, it then takes to log it. So for every hundred hours of raw material, that's going to make an hour of real television. Speaker 0 53:38 It may take 200 hours to log it and you know what? They didn't have super well-defined kind of note taking systems for the loggers. They were, the loggers were doing a lot of kind of open-ended notes and it wasn't extraordinarily well-defined. They didn't necessarily have a specific set of tags that a lager should even put in that word document or whatever they're using to do those log notes. So thinking this through is a challenge and we can help you with that, but your organization is going to know which search criteria will suit individual projects that you're working on best. And so do the homework upfront deploying these systems is much easier. If you think through again, what should our taxonomy be? What, what are the terms, the fields, the values for fields, think that through. And I remember the Goldilocks principle. You want to be able to do a search where you have a smart folder that you could have like maybe three to five fields or, or five to 10 fields that you're doing a search on that are going to like give you few assets for you to browse through, but it's not going to give you a search result of a hundred things, and it's not going to give you a search result of one thing. Speaker 0 54:55 You want your, your fields to be granular enough. So it's really meaningfully limiting what you have to search through, but not limiting it too much or too little, right? Nick, is there anybody that shouldn't be using a man? Speaker 0 55:10 Well, you know, you can buy a desktop copy of cat DV for like 400 bucks. And I think even an individual editor sitting at home will be well served by that. If they're an organized, organized kind of person, um, there are organizations, you know, speaking of these challenges that have a harder time rolling these systems out, not to say that it can't happen and it can't be successful, but like, let's say you have a 30 edit system and environment. And at any given moment, 25 of those 30 seats are populated by freelancers. They may be there for a day then maybe there for a week, or they may be there for a month and they're shifting in and out. And their main job is as editors. Well, getting them trained, not only to edit the shows that you want in the way you want them to do it, but how to tag things and the way you want them to tag them, especially cause this person's going to be out of there in two months. Speaker 0 56:05 And they're never going to probably see the direct benefits of having entered these tags in the first place. You know, that that benefit may come two years down the road. When you want to find that asset again, that freelancer could care less about that. Right. Getting them to buy in on it. He wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. They don't, um, getting them trained on it, taking a, both carrot and stick approach to getting them to do it. It can be a big challenge. And we've seen some organizations that we put in a man for. They're very excited about it. And then it can be a challenge to get their, their users to use it, especially users who aren't really super wed to the organization's longterm goals, you know, in general. And I think this is an important point to make, which is that somebody needs to manage this process in your organization. Speaker 0 56:51 This is not some magic bullet that you can just purchase, implement, and then reap the benefits of there needs to be somebody who really understands both the post production workflow as it exists in your organization. Somebody who understands, um, just exactly what the requirements are as far as metadata tagging. Yeah. And certainly somebody to oversee this process. So if you will, in this example, you have a lot of freelance editors. It is, the onus is on the, the organization really to, to have somebody there to oversee this process. Yeah. I've heard them referred to as like a data Wrangler in a sense it's kind of being like a digital librarian or a digital archivist. Um, I've heard this title referred to as the media operations manager and it doesn't necessarily have to be a dedicated person, but there needs to be a person who clearly in their job description as the set of responsibilities that they are charged with and are being evaluated on is the proper usage and maintenance and upkeep and management, all of this asset management system, someone's gotta kind of be orchestrating its use its design. Speaker 0 58:07 And you know, we were talking about all the thinking that needs to go into metadata fields. That's great for those search functionalities. But then we were talking about these limitless workflow, automation possibilities. Someone needs to be the one who literally sits in front of a piece of paper and draws work flow diagrams that kind of outline the processes of the organization and the various, you know, various aspects of workflow that may be going on both in the field, in production, in the act of logging and ingesting the act of editing and review and approval. And then the act of delivery, all of these systems need to kind of be outlined. So then we can figure out working with you, we as a, an integrator for these types of systems, Hey, well, here's some potential bottlenecks where we're identifying things that are you're, you're going through these steps again and again, but we can probably automate a lot of this to speed up people's times. Speaker 0 59:03 So they don't need to be necessarily sitting there waiting for a transcode to happen. And then manually plopping that file on a server. We can make this checkbox stuff so you can check it and then go on with some other tasks that you're assigned to. But we need to understand what those processes are and use someone needs to be charged with thinking them through it and maybe your post production supervisor, um, you kind of really need, as David is holding up on a sign here and evangelist within your organization, you need a Tammy Faye Baker. Ma'am what was that Ramey man? Uh, Tammy ma'am. So that's right. You get, get all evangelical on that. Cause we, we evangelize for the system, all the ties you need to proselytize the data entry. You gotta be in there and you gotta be like, this is the way to do it. Speaker 0 59:50 And this is why I w I go to these conferences like digital asset management, New York, that Henry stored events puts on. It's a great conference. We'll put it in the show notes. And I encourage people to spend the like 14 or $1,500 admission fee for the two days. Cause it's a lot of good quality folks and very quality sessions. And many of the people who go to this show are the folks who have been kind of assigned the role within their organization. It could be a smaller production company. It could be a mega corporation. There's folks there from government agencies, folks. There are, we always run into UN and UNICEF. We run into folks from, you know, major, major, uh, consumer corporations, major broadcasters, and it tends to attract the kind of folks who are these, these data Wranglers slash librarian slash archivist slash asset management system evangelists within their organizations. Speaker 0 00:42 And you know, a lot of them won't lie. Sometimes they, they they're walking around with a whip or a cat of nine tails within their organization and abusing people who aren't using the system and the leather. Yeah. It's a very dominate Trixie kind of thing. Um, but, um, you know, they, they have to kind of prod people into keeping up with the system because the efficiencies that, you know, it's not just a wasted exercise, the efficiencies that are gained, you know, either later on or by another individual who happens to be sitting across from you, who's doing the searching based on the tags that you're putting in. There are enormous. I mean, people wouldn't put these systems in, if all they were was a waste of time, they save time and by saving time, they can allow you to produce more and make you more money, but still it's a sea change in thinking. Speaker 0 01:35 And it's thinking more about a very holistic approach to your workflow, the tagging of things, your processes, the workflow itself, automation, you know, in automating components thereof, that it's a new way of thinking a little bit, you know, and that's right. You know, a lot of times there's, uh, there's so much going on in the production process and the post production process that, um, and deadlines are always a factor here. Um, as far as, you know, what do you do when you're under a deadline and you've got to get a cut done. Um, and my point of view is always a little bit more on the front end, and it's gonna save you a lot on the back end versus the other way around. I mean, say you're doing a multiple season television show. You're on, you're on the third season. You need Speaker 1 02:20 Those assets from season one. Maybe you're doing a flashback. Maybe you need some of the B roll, maybe, um, you need to recut it for some reason. I mean, there are so many things and, and you don't want to just go back to the, uh, um, uh, the finished product. You might want to go back to the original assets and, and that little bit of extra time, Oh gosh, it's going to save your ass. Yes. It, well, your assets, your assets. So, Speaker 0 02:48 Um, you know, I should say, and kind of in line with that different man platforms have different emphases. If you think this system that requires this much thinking this much automation is just overwhelming and you like the idea of some of the benefits, but you just, this seems too overwhelming for you. There are some systems that have the characteristics of a ma'am, uh, one we're starting to work with a, and we'll have a demo system set up relatively soon as called focal point. And it's actually from the same company that does cat DV. You know, it's interesting because focal point understands that listen, the project file itself in many workflows still is the center of your workflow. And know focal point gives you a I'll call it a collaboration and workflow management system that is really all about tracking project files and less about tracking the individual pieces of media. Speaker 0 03:45 But, but tracking these project files, actually creating project files, say for final coder, for Photoshop or after effects from within this other little program, when you create a project file, it just forces an editor or a logger to just fill out a couple of fields really quickly, those get stamped into the file name. So it's really good at forcing people to kind of create file names that adhere to these file naming conventions. And again, you're baking basically pieces of metadata into the project file names, and people are doing this without even really having to think about it. They just fill out these four or five metadata fields and boom, those are getting stamped in the names. And then it has these whole versioning systems checking in, checking out for the project files and then notification systems to tie people in the organization together. Hey, this project file is ready for you to review this project file, you know, is, is ready for someone to kind of render out. Speaker 0 04:42 And again, you may derive a lot of benefits as far as extra efficiency within your organization, taking a more limited approach and looking at a tool that may be kind of still assumes that the project file or the heart of your workflow, and you're not quite ready to make the database itself, the heart of your workflow. And, and yet you can still get a lot of these advantages. So there's a lot of different approaches. You have some man damn systems, PAMs are better at media files that do have a time element. If you're looking for something that's more photos or graphic files, we may be able to stretch a tool that's mostly oriented around video or audio into also allowing you to work with your graphical or photographic elements, or you may want to combine multiple systems. There's so many approaches. I know that we here at Chesapeake, uh, think through a lot of this stuff with our clients on a daily basis. So you're going to want to really think through this and frankly, work with an outfit like Chesapeake, that, that, that spends a huge amount of our time in a many different environments, each of which are unique to kind of really hash out what you're trying to execute with a project like this. So we cover we'll cover most of it, uh, government say, uh, do we want to hammer in again about how this recording have, you know, it's recording. Speaker 1 06:02 Okay. Can you just had this look in your eye? Like, like, like, Oh my goodness, no, no it's recording. Yeah, no, we just wasted the last hour. We haven't done a damn thing. Uh, but if we'd done a man thing, ah, ha Pam thing, well, you know, uh, Speaker 0 06:17 Yeah. Is there a, I mean, do we need to push more about Indian, this saves money? Do we need to reach stress that Speaker 1 06:24 Well, you know, I, it, it doesn't just save money. It saves your ass. I mean, this is, this is a longterm, um, approach that, um, you know, frankly, uh, again, it's like more in, on the front end, uh, saves you money on the backend. You know, it's an implementation of a ma'am is not, uh, something small. It is not free. You know, what time and amount of stuff screwed Speaker 0 06:48 The pooch for a lot of us when they released final cut server for a thousand bucks and they made it seem like, Oh, this is for anyone. You can just install it on your editing system. And suddenly all your assets are managed when that was like the furthest thing from the truth final cut server, which we were heavily involved with for many years before it kind of died on the fine, um, was an asset management system and very sophisticated on many levels. And even though it was a thousand dollars to buy the box of software, the hardware infrastructure to support it because you need to run these things on servers, and sometimes you need additional storage space for proxies and things like that. That might be 10 or tens of thousands of dollars. And then the professional services to roll it out may have been 10 or tens of extra thousands of dollars. Speaker 0 07:31 These are not small scale projects necessarily, especially for a larger organization. Again, the amount of time saved and efficiency gained and just smoothness to the operation makes it. So this is a, as the folks in the military say a force multiplier, this lets a person do more for every day that they show up at work. I mean, again, we were, we were talking about a system that combines some of the aspects of asset management with these clients over the last few days, um, that, that we thought could cut their logging time into a 10th of what it currently is. This is the combination of this very cutting edge speech and phrase, searching software with an asset management system. And it's like, you can take your lagers and you're paying them X amount. And now you can multiply that by 0.1 and that's their new times and costs. Speaker 0 08:26 And you can either repurpose them for different tasks. You can have them logging 10 times as much material. I mean, again, an asset management system in and of itself, isn't necessarily going to do that. But these types of systems with these types of investments associated sometimes can save so much time and money and energy on at one point or another in your workflow and the various bottlenecks it again, it can be, it can save your ass, it can save your ass. I can't stress it enough. I mean, those are just the facts. Ma'am. So we're very open about, uh, having very in depth conversations with folks about it. Obviously we're Nick and Merrill with Chesapeake systems. You can learn a little bit more about asset management systems and many other things on our website. Uh, chessa.com, C H E S a.com go to the pro video and media section. Speaker 0 09:13 And you can learn more. We'll have show notes, plenty of this subject and links to some of the things we've been talking about. Um, you know, we are on the iTunes store now, please give us a, a great rating if you've liked what you've heard here today and next week, OTT. Yeah. You know, me OTT for you and me OTT, AKA over the top. And I'm not that movie. I love that. I'm not talking about the arm wrestling with Sylvester Stallone. It's just like a number one movie. I know. I learned everything I know about other story right there. I'm telling you, I learned everything I know about arm wrestling from that movie. So you didn't learn much. Did you? I you've seen my arms. Uh, there's nothing to write home about. They do the thing where like in a cartoon you make the muscle thing and it little release. Oh yeah. Yeah. And on that note, no, over the top though, over the top broadcasting that just dramatic shifts taking place now that anyone can kind of be their own broadcaster and deliver their content across the internet, how easy and cheap that is the disruption to the media landscape OTTs is kind of the abbreviation for that. That's what we're getting into next week on workflow show one Oh six. See you guys. Bye. Bye.